U20 Class Member's Forum

General Category => U20 General Discussion => Topic started by: tinfoilhelmet on February 18, 2019, 09:42:19 PM

Title: Accessibility Mods
Post by: tinfoilhelmet on February 18, 2019, 09:42:19 PM
I am the proud new owner of hull 98, formerly Pandemonium, soon to be. . .  still undecided. 

The U20 deck layout and hardware is very elegant; however,  I'm looking to make some accessibility modifications that will make the boat a little easier to sail, and would like to hear the thoughts of U20 experts.  A few years ago I acquired some mobility challenges that make things like sailing  a little more challenging, but tenacity and stubborness can take one a long way. . .   

Here's what I'm considering:

Top down furling: any input or suggestions? (make, model etc.)
Obviously it's not class legal, but it would definitely make spinnaker handling a little simpler.

Batten cars / sail slugs: Batten cars seem like over kill and there seem to be dozens of sail slug/slider variations, any suggestions as to which are the best?

Lazy Jacks (cringe): Are two legs sufficient or is three legs better?

Reefing:  I know the main has one reef in it, does anyone ever set up a reefing line/lines?  Which way works best for the U20?

Self tacking jib:  Also definitely not class legal, but does any one have any input?

Jack lines:  Any one ever use them?

Bottom paint: Unfortunately raising, lowering set-up launch and retrieve isn't an option, so #98 will be moored (Lake Ontario).  Any suggestions for bottom paint?  I've used VC 17 before, but am open to suggestions.  Is there any value in an epoxy coat?

Many of these modifications are common for shorthand sailing in general, but I would appreciate input/suggestions/encouragement on how they might be applied to a U20.  #98 has the "cruising package";  pulpit, 4' side rails and life lines etc, so other than adding a bar between the pushpit rails, there are already quite a few hand holds.

As for usage, this season, mostly day sailing (western lake Ontario) with one or two crew on fair weather days.  My goal is to be learn how to singlehand again.  The U20 was on my wish list when I bought my first keel boat. Now a decade and a bit later, I'm excited to finally have one of my own.   

Cheers,
Scott
 

 
Title: Re: Accessibility Mods
Post by: olyjeff on February 20, 2019, 05:40:35 AM
Congratulations on your new boat! I'm new to the Ultimate 20 as well.

Jeff
Title: Re: Accessibility Mods
Post by: Chris Chambers on February 26, 2019, 04:36:03 PM
Hi Scott and congratulations!  I have a few comments for consideration.

Top down furler - do you have a hatch in your front deck? It might be cleaner if you had a center douse line installed in the spinnaker and rigged a system to go in and out of that hatch.

Slugs on the main - yes. A local boat here installed slugs and has had good results. He highly recommends for short handed sailing.

Lazy jacks and reefing - sorry no experience here. Maybe load the slugs at the dock and tie the sail to the boom for a easier time if it's not easy to sail out from the dock.

Self tacking jib - that seems like it could be an easy retrofit and would help a lot. I wished I had one on several occasions.
 Maybe Tac Boston would have ideas for a cleanly installed solution?

Bottom Paint - I don't think you'll be in the water long enough to need the barrier coat under the bottom paint. The hull should have a chance to dry out each winter. That said, if you're even considering a barrier coat - do it now and save the extra work later.

Good luck and let us know what you come up with!
Chris
Title: Re: Accessibility Mods
Post by: Tac Boston on February 28, 2019, 09:36:45 PM
Congrats on the "new" boat! We are not that far away from each other as I am in Sarnia.

My thoughts/experiences are below in bold.

I am the proud new owner of hull 98, formerly Pandemonium, soon to be. . .  still undecided. 

The U20 deck layout and hardware is very elegant; however,  I'm looking to make some accessibility modifications that will make the boat a little easier to sail, and would like to hear the thoughts of U20 experts.  A few years ago I acquired some mobility challenges that make things like sailing  a little more challenging, but tenacity and stubborness can take one a long way. . .   

Here's what I'm considering:

Top down furling: any input or suggestions? (make, model etc.)
Obviously it's not class legal, but it would definitely make spinnaker handling a little simpler. We are doing a top down system for a fellow U20'er in MA this winter. I think it will work just fine as long as you get a good roll.

Batten cars / sail slugs: Batten cars seem like over kill and there seem to be dozens of sail slug/slider variations, any suggestions as to which are the best? Batten cars are a bit much but we have done, for the same guy above a mainsail with slugs up the luff and it works great for him. One option you could look at is a tides marines sail track. We sell a lot of these to bigger cruising boats. It slips right up the mast and is very easy to hoist and such. Ads a bit of weight I am not sure you want however.

Lazy Jacks (cringe): Are two legs sufficient or is three legs better? I would think two legs would be plenty on a U-20. Not a terrible idea.

Reefing:  I know the main has one reef in it, does anyone ever set up a reefing line/lines?  Which way works best for the U20? Can't say as I have never reefed a main on this boat :) I would say for me it would be a reef before you leave the dock kind of thing?

Self tacking jib:  Also definitely not class legal, but does any one have any input? interesting idea, I like it other then the jib will have to be totally reconfigured as it will become much smaller, which will also change the balance of the boat.

Jack lines:  Any one ever use them?

Bottom paint: Unfortunately raising, lowering set-up launch and retrieve isn't an option, so #98 will be moored (Lake Ontario).  Any suggestions for bottom paint?  I've used VC 17 before, but am open to suggestions.  Is there any value in an epoxy coat? I would for sure do a barrier coat of epoxy, I believe all the Bayview Yacht club boats have both and it works well.

Many of these modifications are common for shorthand sailing in general, but I would appreciate input/suggestions/encouragement on how they might be applied to a U20.  #98 has the "cruising package";  pulpit, 4' side rails and life lines etc, so other than adding a bar between the pushpit rails, there are already quite a few hand holds.

As for usage, this season, mostly day sailing (western lake Ontario) with one or two crew on fair weather days.  My goal is to be learn how to singlehand again.  The U20 was on my wish list when I bought my first keel boat. Now a decade and a bit later, I'm excited to finally have one of my own.   Again congrats on the U-20, they really are great little boats! Cheers  Tac Boston Hull #28, tac (@)doyleboston.com

Cheers,
Scott
Title: Re: Accessibility Mods
Post by: allentownsend on March 04, 2019, 06:37:34 PM
hi Scott, congratulations on your new boat.
I have been sailing my 20 for quite a few years, mostly single handed.  Some things I can comment on...

I am currently using slugs on the luff and lazy jacks for flaking my main.  I use three lines and a plan that I found on the internet that makes it easy to raise and lower the lines and store them along the boom.  I raise them to take down my sail, use sail ties to secure the sail, and then lower and stow the lazy jacks along the boom before covering the sail.  I do not need them raised when I raise the sail.

I have previously used a homemade roller furler and a “Dutchman sail flaking system".  The Dutchman system costs more than lazy jacks and requires a sail-maker to layout the holes etc. It has holes in the sail and nylon lines through the sails.  It is the easiest and cleanest sail flaking system that I have used.  I recommend that you check it out.  You can google it and see videos. 

The slugs that I use on my main are from Sailrite.com:  Part # 6981 Allslip Round Slug 3/8“  $5.00ea.   I have found that smaller slugs allow the sail to twist and the slugs to bind at the full battened top when the sail is being lowered.  The slugs I referenced work well for me.

I am the fellow in MA that Tac mentioned doing a top down furler for.  I have not actually tried it yet, but I did a fair amount of research and I am optimistic that it will work well.  I am looking forward to trying it this May.   Some of these top down furlers are quite expensive.  I shopped around and ended up getting the Ronstan 80 top down furler and two custom torsion cables from Upffront.com in Germany. I ordered two cables so that I can use the same swivels for my new code 0 (which Tac is making for me) and with one of my asymmetrical spinnakers.  I am optimistic that it will do the job well. 
 
I have tried a spinnaker sock, but it has not worked well for me. 

I have no suggestions for a self tacking jib, but I have modified my jib cars so that I can adjust them from the cockpit.
I have the ability to reef the main from the cockpit.  I do not find reefing under sail very easy when sailing single handed and If I am going to reef, I set it before I leave the dock and release it while sailing. 

I have frequently thought of adding another set of cleats for the spinnaker sheets so that I could use them more easily when steering and controlling the spinnaker.  i.e. the cleats would be aft of the standard spinnaker sheet cleats.

I sail on a deep lake with shallow edges and keep my boat on a lift. I have a version of a kick up rudder which I find much more convenient that taking the rudder off and putting it on while on the water. 

I have used a Torqeedo motor for a number of years now.  3hp version and large battery provides a lot of range (for me) and more control for tight maneuvering than a gasoline outboard.

Good luck and enjoy your great new boat!

Allen
Bomazeen #7
Title: Re: Accessibility Mods
Post by: Chris Chambers on March 06, 2019, 04:35:39 PM
Allen - that torsion cable looks interesting - I wonder - when used as a forestay, would it elimnate the creases in the tac of the jib that happen with the current system.  Let us know how it works!

Chris
Title: Re: Accessibility Mods
Post by: allentownsend on March 07, 2019, 03:31:51 AM
The way I am using the top down furler, it will not replace the forestay.  I will be using it between the extended bow sprit to the spinnaker halyard block in the mast.  It will be awhile, but I will let you know how it works.
Title: Re: Accessibility Mods
Post by: tinfoilhelmet on March 09, 2019, 11:25:25 PM
Thank you so much for getting back to me.  I've now got quite a bit to consider until the weather (and water) is favorable for sailing in this part of the world.

Cheers,
Scott
Title: Re: Accessibility Mods
Post by: Andy M on July 08, 2019, 06:00:59 PM
Hi Scott,

I was in very similar situation to you four years ago (in Vancouver) with U20 after wanting one for many many years !
I was not disappointed.
- I now single hand often and regularly sail with just young kid(s). 
While I will return to (local handicap) racing I am  only cruising right now.

Lots of answers already, I will add my 2c

My comments are only relevant for light winds (Under 12K average)  I would not personally go out without another competent adult over 15K .   It is a big main.

I find Boat is a joy  to sail single handed in light airs,  getting the mainsail  back down is my biggest issue by far.

I have a boom kicker, cannot imagine getting sail up /down without it.  and a simple tiller tamer to go in straight line when raising  /lowering.

I thought about lazy jacks but instead built a pair "U" shape sail catchers    (plywood/Alu).   They sit/clip on top of the boom to hold /catch the main.  They are 16" wide 8" tall,  (2" long)
They work fine and look far less stupid than I was expecting !
Original idea was I would take them off as soon as sail up but  single handing I actually eave them on, and they keep sail tidy when reefed.

Together the above makes raising easy and  dropping the main manageable but still a bit frantic, often have to have 1 trip back to tiller to point back into wind.
I would love to hear other ideas !   ( I am definitely going to look into slugs on main)


Single handing I reef in/out regularly when sailing ( I know sacrilege to most racers)  as soon as I see whitecaps. 
Boat is far more comfortable not healing like crazy with main flapping and I honestly don't notice performance loss.
- I keep a second out-haul permanently attached. My on-boom sail holder keeps the sail tidy. All I do is lower main and crank the second out haul. It is quick easy process.


Top down furling ?
Another option for short/single handing/cruising - cut down an old kite ...
I have an inherited code zero-ish kite, short foot, pretty flat  (same luff length but much smaller then class spin guess about 250Sq foot)
 I launch retrieve  usual way from the bag in hatchway
It is very nice for short /single handing, or if you are not up for the excitement of the class kite
I use it cruising all time right round to a beam reach.

A Toqueedo makes everything a lot easier than a small gas outboard (instant on/off, very controllable, reverse gear..)  as long as you never want to go motor than 6-7 miles ....

Finally,

Like you, I keep boat in water 6mo/year.  I understand all the reasons not to, but if I did not have it on a slip 10 min from my house I would not use it...
  ( I often got for a 90 minute solo  sail after work,  - 15 min set up and go time essential )

I sand off /put on ablative bottom paint every 2 years - horrible horrible job.  and it will DEFINITELY reduce value of boat.
I think someone else mentioned this to you...
( I use Petite Horizons,  cant see it works very well...)
I had mine for sale briefly 2 years ago, question everyone asked was "is it always dry sailed?"
 50% callers had no further interest.

I love boat and accept I have reduced its value, I have no intention of selling and I am OK with that
but as U20 is one of very few (?) sail boats that really seem to hold value it may be issue.

Good luck
Please let me know if you figure out a better way of getting the main down !

Andy
Vancouver